Also… Since you apparently couldn’t figure out that a person with their back to the ledge can still move themselves… You can stab on the 180* arc… but when they put their back to a ledge and aren’t mentally damaged they can just turn slightly with you as you try and position for the stab, and force you to have to go 180* from your current position to touch the edge of that backstab window again (and can keep turning with you as you try and adjust). If you and the target are both snared, he’s focusing on countering your positioning rather than caring about someone more important, and he isn’t completely brain-damaged, you aren’t getting that backstab off.
Try not to fall of that ledge while strafing for them EZ backstabs. 2% dodge is much greater than a 5 energy save that u might use once a day.
7-6 seconds stealth CD is a must and the movement speed will help you not feel like a turtle while in stealth leading to many better opening opportunities. Every situation you spoke of can be handled easily… even by an avg IQ 13-year-old.
You go to sneak up the edge of cliff on the target’s right side putting you @ his 90* mark, and in this hypothetical giving you a full 5* window in which to stab. On the 3rd floor of SG there’s a spot where you can get two ledges covering you from rogues trying to be all stubby (the corner points towards the cap just after the roof choke point, and overlooking the second floor)… With two ledges you can cover 270* of area from rogues trying to stab you.
I lardy countered… u just don’t read deeply and are blinded BCU u want to win an argument that u lost b4 u even started arguing. Just stand on him and face his back if u need to… a still target even on a ledge is EZ PA work for a dagger rogue.
I found dagger builds really underwhelming in 1.12 in both PVP and Eve. It’s not about that, your burst is simply mediocre at that point of the game compared to other classes, while consuming too much energy, not to mention the positioning limitations.
Sometimes seeing that 2.5k+ ambush CRT that finishes an injured cloth is too much fun. You won’t be playing only 1 spec in vanilla wow for more than a few months at a time… that gets boring.
Herbert: Every build linked so far are garbage and will get u killed in competitive PVP. You’re 21/3/27 Hero Swords build is fine although I always preferred 2/2 Murder over 3/5 Imp Poisons.
Your third 21/8/22 Dagger spec doesn’t take Hero or Imp SS and without a low-energy option you’ll have a hard time weaving your st unlock without gaps. You also didn’t take Elusiveness and again chose Imp Poisons over Murder.
Trying to argue against my advice/words proves to me u don’t have what it takes to be a pro dagger rogue. 6% increased chance to apply poisons > 2% DMG.
We have neither now, but we learn to control our resource energy really well, and you won’t even need it. Even between daggers and swords it depends on how much damage you want to sacrifice for control.
You’d have a lot more credibility if you where to actually post on your rogue you claimed to have been so hardcore and successful on, provided any logical counterarguments when questioned beyond “trust me, I’m a huge deal”, and if you made at least some effort to type using the English language. Deadlock: Also improved gouge is great and very underrated.
I mean I get why the hero build likes cold blood… but damn losing imp gouge hurts. Just don’t even try… I can smell a pack of nubs 100 miles away on these forums.
If you continue to argue (nubs Love starting arguments) then you admit defeat (pls write respond, so I can imagine a nerd crying while reading it). Albert Einstein lost all of his forms of Identification, every1 he knows is dead, and he is in Greenland.
Rogue’s tend to have more spec combinations that are considered PVP viable tho Hero sub with prep or seal fate, 2x swords was always the way to go, and a dagger swap for the ambush opener.
Cold Blood with a slow/high DMG dagger into an ambush was always juice, but I never lost a fight as a hero, +3 physical damage + 5cp expose armor. Spec won’t matter as much as now it’s going to be skill and gear.
In every build’s case above there’s a couple of points that are free to move around… Improved Disc, Imp SND, Murder, Remorseless attacks, improved poisons in Assess are all choices… Precision and deflection–>riposte are potential options down the combat line, and Sub only the first 5 points in Opportunity are really “locks”… I’d add that I’ve personally seen a bunch of builds that skip either ruthlessness or relentless strikes in assassination… and I genuinely don’t understand how people live without either of those two talents AS ANY SPEC.
I’m wondering about stuff like this, because I’m genuinely curious and how it could be skewing general perception as to just exactly HOW GOOD rogues were in 1.12 vanilla Rogues back then had a pretty high skill ceiling.
Apocalypse: I’d add that I’ve personally seen a bunch of builds that skip either ruthlessness or relentless strikes in assassination… and I genuinely don’t understand how people live without either of those two talents AS ANY SPEC. Given how strong both those talents are I don’t honestly understand how anyone does skip those given how much they push the tempo.
Every build linked so far are garbage and will get u killed in competitive PVP. I once killed a 57 druid on my 33 rogue from full health to dead, and he never left CC.
Full Combat and Full Assassination both require amazing/High caliber skill to pull off solo PVP/1v1/1vX and good teammates/healers to pull off in competitive PVP BG’s/etc or else you will be killed left and right. You overvalue Camouflage, IMO… The stealth CD reduction only matters in situations where you are immediately dropping combat again after your opener or the next couple of global.
You simply aren’t going to be catching THAT MANY people with their pants completely down, where you then also need to get back into stealth super rapidly in that 3-4 second window. Finally, the 2% dodge over impress is where I struggle the most… Even with SS’s very limited ideal usage in a dagger build, it’s still better than 2% dodge… especially if you ever plan on doing anything outside a BG.
It’s not going to be like Servers where you can face stab out in the world, and gouge-stabbing is atrociously slow. The base stealth speed is just too slow to get in on good players that know you are around.
If you are not comfortable with your skills then go ahead and take imp SS. If you are not comfortable with your skills then go ahead and take imp SS.
And as a bonus, the changes in the Subtlety and Combat trees also make it possible to take some PVP -specific talents. Seal Fate Dagger was the benchmark for crossing PVP /Eve viability.
In PVP, it relied on big backstabs for burst damage, good combo point generation for st unlocks, and Cold Blood-Eviscerate to finish off the opponent. The combo point generation allows for 100% Slice and Dice coverage along with the occasional 5 pt eviscerate.
Cold Blood, Preparation and daggers make for a very nice PVP combination. This build focuses on burst damage with solid cooldown management.
Great all-around build that uses the new (2.0.1) mutilate talent to rival seal fate daggers. Key talents are Cold Blood, Mutilate, Lethality, Opportunity, Remorseless, Vigor, Seal Fate, and Apply Poisons.
It won't match Combat Daggers for sustained damage, but it's a bit more adaptable for various types of fights. This build most excels at group PVP where it can use its combo points to hold targets in place while the high white damage beats them down.
The white damage and poison talents also make it a half-decent build for raiding. Key talents: Seal Fate, Dual Wield, Blade Flurry.
Initiative and Dirty Deeds also contribute to the overall efficiency of the build, while Cold Blood and Imp Kidney Shot boost the somewhat limited burst damage. Hemorrhage was not normalized in the 1.8 patch, thus some rogues claim Hero is a good raid build.
Unfortunately it isn't, unless you happen to be swinging the very best weapons (Rank 14/AQR/AXX) and have exceptionally high AP. Key talents: Cold Blood, Imp Gouge, Prep, Initiative, Dirty Deeds, Hero.
As mentioned above, hemorrhage is the most CP efficient ability in the rogue arsenal. The fast CP's make it possible to pop a 5-pt eviscerate before the initial CS wears off.